Curse

Essence Snow · Jul 07, 2010, 03:53 PM // 15:53

So admittedly, I abuse the heck out of maintainable spell protection. As everyone knows, it allows the majority of HM farming to be accomplished. Without constant spell protection a lot of the SCs and solo "mass" farms would not be possible.

If durations were shortened or apsects like VoS (no casting during) were added....it would pretty much end SCs. Granted I SC my arse off....but I don't really think that HM content should be able to be "basically" ran through. Bypassing 90% of content to receive a reward....is well....too much to pass up. I know this sounds hypocritical....I want SCs to end, but I SC a lot...I sort of feel like a smoker...lol....I want to quit, but I'm addicted.

This is in reguards to all maintainable spell protection...not just one form....as if one gets the X, the others will simply replace it.

Obby Flesh~Reduce E costs, increase recharge, increase armor bonus, cancel abilty to cast enchants/use stances
Spell Breaker~Reduce E costs and Not affected by Blessed Aura
SF~ Make the dmg cap actually work, Shorten duration, and Ends after 1...2...3....5 skills/attacks or Skills are disabled for 15..13...11..etc after casting

dark4190 · Jul 07, 2010, 07:24 PM // 19:24

meaning..

Obsidian Flesh
Spell Breaker
Vow of Silence (?)
Spell Shield (?)
Shadow Form

how many of you were expecting Shadow Form to be on the top?

Kosar The Cruel · Jul 07, 2010, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I think Vow of Silence would be exempt because it doesn't allow you to cast spells while enchanted with it. But the short duration with short recharge balance it out.

I'm all for ending speed clears. This might be the simplest way but then It would also kill off Spell Breaker and Obsidian Flesh almost completely. Atleast, I think it would, right?

Lanier · Jul 07, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

What I would like to see for spell shield and spell breaker is some new tools for monks to protect with. I think that they should be given guardian and aegis like effects respectively that work against spells rather than attacks. So, for example, spell shield would cost 10 en with a 6 sec recharge and whoever is enchanted with it "block" (the spell would fail) 50% of spells for about the same duration as guardian. The same could go for spell breaker except it would act like a 15 energy costing aegis that makes 50% of spells fail.

As For shadow form, I think it should follow the same general functionality as flashing blades. It could cause 50-75% of spells targeting the caster to fail and maybe have a second effect like causing conditions to end x% sooner.

Vow of Silence could cause 50% of the spells targeting the dervish to fail and could allow the caster to use spells under it again.

I haven't really thought about an idea for obby flesh but it could follow the same general principal as the above skills.

Also, numbers for energy cost and recharge could be adjusted if the effect were found to be too powerful or weak for general pve use.

Killamus · Jul 07, 2010, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Yes, please end speedclears and anything that allows rewards easier then what someone would think is necessary! I, for one, would love ectos to shoot back up to 20k/ea, and armbraces to near impossible prices to obtain.

And while you're at it, nerf solo farming too. It's pretty much the same thing, except that it doesn't support teamwork, so it's even worse then speedclears!

Please, allow everyone who did abuse these things to become exponentially more rich then those who didn't! Make my 20 stacks of glacial stones worth 1k/stone again, because we can't solo farm them any more! I'd love for my armbraces to keep steady at 25ecto/ea, with ecto back up to 20k! Please, kill any remaining interest in this game as fast as possible, we all know that the more interest a game has, the worse it gets. Look at WoW. Remember all of the builds we'd have to fix/nerf to make this work!

100b farmer
Permasin degen
Permasin sliver
VoS farmer
Avatar of balth farmer
permasin fire
Make ranged foes go around blocking objects
Spirit spammer (It can solo farm the entire UW!)
Trappers
Stoneflesh armor
Armor of Earth
Ether Renewal
Save Yourselves
Orders
DwG
600/smite
VwK
55 (Actually, just nerf prot spirit)
MoP
Whirling Defense
And the list goes on! Hell, just Smiter's Boon every skill and there you go! No more speedclears, no more awful solo farming!

</sarcasm>

But yes, to nerf speedclears you'd have to nerf skills that make these speedclears possible - Skills that make these areas possible to do normally (Non-speedclear-esque).

There's no reason to kill speedclears. It's team-oriented (Hell, only like 1 or 2 speedclears can take heroes with them), it allows for rewards easier then would normally be possible, yes, but it makes those rewards accessible to people who are willing to put the effort into learning these speedclears. Speedclears that allow anyone to instantly go in and earn rewards in little time for little effort (*cough*DwG, kill it with fire*cough*) need to die, yes. But look at DoA. It takes an HOUR on average just to do a SINGLE area on NM, let alone HM, with an experienced, non-speedclear team. My guild does, on average, 2-3 HM DoA SC's a day. For kicks, one day we decided to do a BYOB NM clear of DoA, just to break things up. We were about halfway through city (20 minutes in) when a minion decided to glitch and ran away from the MM, getting aggro and wiping the entire team. Does this sound like fun to you?

How about doing an UW, NM run with no tanks, failing on your last quest at 3 hours in because the spirit spammer couldn't move their spirits fast enough? And this was before skeletons and Dhuum.

I don't know about you all, but I don't find fun in failing something horribly just because of the mob mentality "SPEEDCLEARS ARE BAD KILL IT WITH A RAGING INFERNO FROM HELL". I find fun in doing runs with guild mates and actually succeeding, even if it's from a "Speed Clear".

And once someone finds a build that let's people do DoA/UW faster then what other people think as "Acceptable", you all will scream "KILL IT WITH FIRE AGAIN". When will you all be sated? When we can't even complete these areas because the skills are too "OP"?

Shayne Hawke · Jul 07, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09

This thread will be soon moved to Riverside unless the OP fixes their post with some kind of definite suggestion of what should be changed and how it should be changed.

Essence Snow · Jul 08, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42

If this needs to be moved by all means move it....I was just posting for something to do while waiting for.......wait for it........a SC group to fill out. Like I mentioned b4 I'm like a smoker...just chain-scing away. I think my post mainly deals with having spell protection being temporary. ex) a low cost prot to cast on an ally during an engagement...that is not maintainable. This would prot that ally from spells when they need it most, yet not make them spell proof for the duration of the campaign. VoS's low costs and recharge are balanced by disabling all other casting....the other major spell prots just don't have this drawback. Granted VoS is great for running....but try and fight anything with it and...well we all pretty much know how that goes. OF even with it's 25e cost still offers the ability to simply run past foes to a desired target where an objective can be completed with little effort. SB has the same potential for abuse. And ofc SF.....it doesn't even do what it supposed to...Correct me if I am wrong...but shouldn't a damage cap.....ummmm CAP damage. I shouldn't be able to throw spears for 60+ dmg when I am supposed to be under a 26dmg cap. All this reminds me of law...yeah there are rules and such, but if ya know all the loopholes you can get away with bloody murder.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 08, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Thread reopened for further discussion.

jazilla · Jul 08, 2010, 10:18 PM // 22:18

SC's kill the economy, but if you are into GW for the economy when the game is as long in the tooth as gw is, then you shouldn't be playing gw.

Killamus · Jul 09, 2010, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Obby Flesh~Reduce E costs, increase recharge, increase armor bonus, cancel abilty to cast enchants/use stances

Obsidian Flesh isn't used as it is. By increasing the recharge, you've just smiter's boon'd it. Add in the inability to cast enchantments/use stances? Congrats, it'll get about as much use as Shroud of Silence.

Quote:

Spell Breaker~Reduce E costs and Not affected by Blessed Aura

Won't change a thing. It'll just make it a bit harder to keep up, unless you wanna use personals.

Quote:

SF~ Make the dmg cap actually work, Shorten duration, and Ends after 1...2...3....5 skills/attacks or Skills are disabled for 15..13...11..etc after casting

Damage cap does work, or did you miss the update page(And yes, it did actually fix it.)? Skills disabled is horrible, people would switch to VoS tanks instantly. Ending after 1..2...3...whatever skill uses wouldn't do anything, it lasts so short already that I doubt this'll ever be an issue with halfway decent tanks. Unless you shorted the duration to where it wouldn't be maintainable, even with a 50% recharge, (<13 seconds in duration at 19 shadow arts), this isn't even worthwhile talking about. But, by doing that you'd also kill every other possible use for it, like survivors and vaettir farming.

Rather then trying to fix this, I'm wondering: Why DOES it need to be fixed? It's been here pretty much since day 1 - I'd hope that the GW team isn't so incompetent as to allow such a horrible, overpowered mistake go on for over 5 years (6 counting beta). Why do you feel that you know EXACTLY what this game needs, rather then the people who have been developing it for upwards of 5 years? Yes, they make mistakes(Look at DwG), but then again everyone does. If you're wondering why they haven't removed something like this, let me spill this truth to you: It's too LATE. If they nerf SC'ing now, the economy will go completely into the shitter (Moreso then it is already), and everyone who plays this game just for the rewards in GW2 will leave. And believe it or not, that's a big portion of this game right now. If you REALLY don't want to do speedclears, join a non-speedclear guild. There's plenty of them out there. Or, hell, just stop doing speedclears?

Essence Snow · Jul 09, 2010, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Damage cap does work, or did you miss the update page(And yes, it did actually fix it.)? Skills disabled is horrible, people would switch to VoS tanks instantly. Ending after 1..2...3...whatever skill uses wouldn't do anything, it lasts so short already that I doubt this'll ever be an issue with halfway decent tanks. Unless you shorted the duration to where it wouldn't be maintainable, even with a 50% recharge, (<13 seconds in duration at 19 shadow arts), this isn't even worthwhile talking about. But, by doing that you'd also kill every other possible use for it, like survivors and vaettir farming.

The cap works until you figure in all the possible bonuses....i.e. GDW, EbSoH, BuH, etc......I was still throwing spears for 60ish this morning, so unless there was a secondary update after the WiK finally, then it hasn't been fixed. Legendary Survivor has become one of the easiest/cheapest titles to get b/c of SF. Kath hammers end up only costing 500g each which makes LS cost about 90k...epic....lol. I can't believe the ppl who got LS the old fashion way haven't spoken up about this yet. It makes the title a joke.

Quote:

Rather then trying to fix this, I'm wondering: Why DOES it need to be fixed? It's been here pretty much since day 1 - I'd hope that the GW team isn't so incompetent as to allow such a horrible, overpowered mistake go on for over 5 years (6 counting beta). Why do you feel that you know EXACTLY what this game needs, rather then the people who have been developing it for upwards of 5 years? Yes, they make mistakes(Look at DwG), but then again everyone does. If you're wondering why they haven't removed something like this, let me spill this truth to you: It's too LATE. If they nerf SC'ing now, the economy will go completely into the shitter (Moreso then it is already), and everyone who plays this game just for the rewards in GW2 will leave. And believe it or not, that's a big portion of this game right now. If you REALLY don't want to do speedclears, join a non-speedclear guild. There's plenty of them out there. Or, hell, just stop doing speedclears?

I actually am not in a SC guild. I PUG 95% of them. The reason I feel this is soo broken is b/c it allows you to RUN PAST everything vs fighting it. At least with DWG you have to kill things. I have no quarrels with fast methods of killing things. By all means if you figure out a way to kill everything efficiently more power to ya. (p.s. I'm sry dwg killed ambrace prices for the "doa guilds"...lol)

Remember this is a "suggestion box". This section of the forum is for suggestions. "What would you like to see happen" if I recall correctly, NOT "What do you know is best for the game".

Killamus · Jul 09, 2010, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

The cap works until you figure in all the possible bonuses....i.e. GDW, EbSoH, BuH, etc......I was still throwing spears for 60ish this morning,

Not while you were under SF. See attached pic. Oh, and while I took out the note about kath hammers, I'd like to just throw these links at ya:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/l...t10442759.html B/O is 2k/ea, after the 1.5k reward
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10444342.html B/O is 3k/ea, after reward

They've gone down a bit in price, you used to be able to sell them for 5.5k/ea (About an ecto)

Quote:

I actually am not in a SC guild. I PUG 95% of them. The reason I feel this is soo broken is b/c it allows you to RUN PAST everything vs fighting it. At least with DWG you have to kill things. I have no quarrels with fast methods of killing things. By all means if you figure out a way to kill everything efficiently more power to ya. (p.s. I'm sry dwg killed ambrace prices for the "doa guilds"...lol)

So? Do you run around and kill everything in your path while doing missions normally? No, you run past as much as possible, because there's no reason to kill it. In NM, I just bring two X/P heroes with fall back and run myself to the end of the mission without killing anything. Is this considered broken? There's not a reason for me to kill it - The XP isn't worth it, and nothing really decent drops from most mobs these days, aside from the odd green here and there. And you've never done a DoASC, because you kill just as much with the normal SC as with DwG. The difference is that DoASC requires something resembling skill (E.G. throw a group of newbs with the right builds and two hours and 10 failures later, they might finish 1 part of DoA), whereas something like DwG doesn't (E.G. throw a group of newbs with the right builds and two hours they'll come out with 20 gems).

Which seems more OP/broken to you? I think I'd rather have maintainable spell protection that requires skill to use, then something that allows a group with no prior knowledge of the area to go in and lolrape everything in a short amount of time.

Note: If you feel like "Skill" is an inappropriate word here, feel free to replace it with "Experience".

EDIT: Just realized the pic was horribly resized. I'll figure out somewhere else to upload it when I get back up.

Ranger Jaap · Jul 09, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Stop trying to nerf speedclears this game is old and some people enjoy speedclearing so dont take that away. most people who whine about speedclears are the one who dont want to get the builds or the effort to do it.

Morphy · Jul 10, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Spirit spammer (It can solo farm the entire UW!)

That's soooooo slow. You actually get more ecto's with 2 man because you can kill smites in a reasonable amount of time.